Curse

Amy Awien · Mar 28, 2008, 02:22 PM // 14:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Esan

Beware that AutoHotkey is easily detected ...

Oh? How?

Quote:

... and specifically targeted by Anet in their anti-botting checks, as is its slightly more well-known cousin AutoIt.

It's a general purpose program so if they 'target' it they should probably give some notice about checking for it.

It is illegal to collect information from a computer system and send that information to a remote system (without permission).

They can not use collect and such information about your system without asking and it's not even mentioned on their site, or anywhere.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Omnidragon42

But just because it does no harm, does that make it right?

Actually, I think yes. Doing harm, or not, is a pretty good and objective measure for right and wrong.

Esan · Mar 28, 2008, 04:34 PM // 16:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amy Awien

Oh? How?

PM me if you want specifics, but the gist is that it is trivial to tell when an event such as a mouse click or key press is synthetic and when it comes from actual user action.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amy Awien

It is illegal to collect information from a computer system and send that information to a remote system (without permission).

They can not use collect and such information about your system without asking and it's not even mentioned on their site, or anywhere

Who said anything about sending information about the system to Anet. The client simply has to detect that it is getting synthetic events and tell that to the server. Thus, the only info the server receives is what has directly been input into the client, either by a human or by a script generating events. AutoIt and AutoHotkey, being basically the same code base, have a characteristic signature.

Also, I don't know which reality you live in, but in my reality not only can online game clients phone home with information about the client system, but it is commonplace. How do you think companies like Anet, Blizzard, Sony etc. detect bots in the first place?

Firebaall · Mar 28, 2008, 05:41 PM // 17:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jade

Thank you for clearing that up. Oh, and insinuating that we're a bunch of RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GOin morons. But that's not what I asked.

I asked why it would hurt anything or anyone if I was sitting alone in my gh getting drunk. Whether it be by clicking my mouse every 3 minutes or by using a macro to click the mouse for me. Can someone without a superiority complex maybe put thier 2 cents in?

Little bit self-centred much?

Explain how you deserve to get a title that others had to work at by being actively involved with the game?

Now explain how you think it's fair that you get to click a button and walk away for the hours it takes to get it?

I'll be waiting to see if those "brain cells" working for you.

VitisVinifera · Mar 28, 2008, 05:57 PM // 17:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Firebaall

Little bit self-centred much?

Explain how you deserve to get a title that others had to work at by being actively involved with the game?

Now explain how you think it's fair that you get to click a button and walk away for the hours it takes to get it?

I'll be waiting to see if those "brain cells" working for you.

you beat me to it. Yeah, now that's arrogance. I suppose he is the self-ordained 'decider' who makes all decisions on behalf of Anet. Evidently, he lacks the brain cells to comprehend that we are asking Anet. This post is classic.

Aerian_Skybane · Mar 28, 2008, 10:17 PM // 22:17

Vitis,

A straight answer is not what you are going to get based upon the authoritative stance ANet is (and should) take on this issue. They have told you explicitly that they do not SUPPORT macros. Thus, if you get banned for using a macro, ANY macro, it is YOUR fault, and not "ZOMG ANET BANNED ME FOR SOMETHING THEY SAID WASNT ILLEGAL BUT THEY SAID THEY DIDNT SUPPORT IT!".

If they don't support it, then it can lead to punishment. If ANet starts outlining in detail which types of macros, where, when, how much, how little, and how long are allowed, then their ability to filter out major versus accidental abuse becomes limited.

If they keep it vague, on the front end it will seem vague, but it also allows them to take abuse situations into play. Someone who even spams an emote clearly using even individual text macros is subject to blocking while a regular user who has the /wave emote macroed and doesn't spam it should not be, even though they are using the same macros. Therefore it is in ANet's and the players' best interest to just follow common sense. And if your common sense doesn't line up with ANets, then you appeal the ban, and learn your lesson.

What I am saying, is that in an evolving world (of which GW is no matter how many times people want to insert their _____ opinions of GW's health in EVERY post blah blah cry me a river), especially in the intangible gaming world of GW, certain things are approached on a day to day basis. Macros are such a thing, as they can both increase a players enjoyment through natural gameplay, and to abuse gameplay through automation whether it be for personal gain or for the displeasure of other users.

That is all.

VitisVinifera · Mar 29, 2008, 12:27 AM // 00:27

aerian:

I totally respect that interpretation/point of view/stance. However, what's notable is that it's YOU, not ANET stating this. While that very well may be their philosophy on things, they have yet to say remotely as much.

Also, Anet has not explicitely told me anything. This thread is remarkably lacking in that aspect. I believe earlier in this thread someone posted a support reply or two stating that it is ok to bind commands to keys, which would be a macro.

Phineas · Mar 29, 2008, 01:54 AM // 01:54

You know when you have a stack of rare materials, and you want to sell them to the NPC vendor? I macro that because it's so laborious. I do not use a fancy mouse nor keyboard either. There is plenty of macro writing software out there that lets you create them and choose your own keyboard short-cut.

Angiolina · Mar 29, 2008, 02:16 AM // 02:16

well, if a script that farm ss/lb point exist i would try it.

i have to do the same thing 80 (yes, 80) times to gain a title, cmon..........

VitisVinifera · Mar 29, 2008, 02:21 AM // 02:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Angiolina

well, if a script that farm ss/lb point exist i would try it.

i have to do the same thing 80 (yes, 80) times to gain a title, cmon..........

this would, of course be an example of something which should be illegal, get your account locked, and be a mockery in this forum

bigtime102 · Mar 29, 2008, 03:18 AM // 03:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by thasadar606

not knowing I used the same macro UNTIMED, and i got disconnected (I am pretty sure my attempt was logged ) , after that I tried one with timing (I recorded my fastest button pressed chaining-so it was not the same timing) and retried..I got to 70 energy when I died...now...I requested a support answer...and silently wait for my BAN...I am screwed if that's ILLEGAL IN REAL TERMS!

i dont have any macro keyboards or mice but i get disconnected when i salvage things too fast, like say i got a bunch of items that are stackable i want to salavage, i put my salvage kit beside them in the inventory and try to burn through them real fast and I get disconnected if i go too fast. annoying... yeah im that fast Anet change the damn timer!!

Jade · Mar 29, 2008, 08:23 AM // 08:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Omnidragon42

It doesn't really hurt anyone, except in the sense that the people who got it manually put in more effort than you did, but they don't have to know that.

But just because it does no harm, does that make it right?

Thank you for being the only one to answer the question that I asked. Oh and you didn't even have to insult my brain cell count to do it. Thanks for that too.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Firebaall

Little bit self-centred much?

Explain how you deserve to get a title that others had to work at by being actively involved with the game?

Now explain how you think it's fair that you get to click a button and walk away for the hours it takes to get it?

I'll be waiting to see if those "brain cells" working for you.

Again, please read the post before responding. I never once said I deserved a title without being actively involved in the game. Nor did I say that it was fair that one could do so. Others here are just trying to figure out what we can and can't do with the g15 keyboard macros and I don't see you calling down thier brain cell count.

Quote:

Originally Posted by VitisVinifera

you beat me to it. Yeah, now that's arrogance. I suppose he is the self-ordained 'decider' who makes all decisions on behalf of Anet. Evidently, he lacks the brain cells to comprehend that we are asking Anet. This post is classic.

Arrogance? Where? Again, please read before responding. I don't recall saying anywhere that I was the "decider" who makes all the decisions on behalf of Anet. Could you perhaps quote where I said that? "I lack the brain cells to comprehend what you're asking Anet"? How do you figure that? I just asked a simple question, and you and Firebaall go off on a tangent and start to insult my intelligence. Well, whatever makes your e-peens bigger I guess.

flyinhigh · Mar 29, 2008, 09:08 AM // 09:08

yeah, you basically got the same answer that i did from the GM's concerning macros, if you have to be infront of your computer for it, its not getting you banned. other than that statement, i dont think we are going to get them to be any clearer.

I have been working on a script that will set your flags for heros for HFFF farm, you still have to run outside but you press the key and it sets your flags, makes for much more consistent runs (cuz i suck at setting the flags in the right place) then it triggers the hero skills. then you collect the reward. i went from failing 3 out of every 5 to hardly failing any at all. ~1 in 50. and im still at my computer so i think its legit.

oh and i have been using autohotkey for a year, and haven't been banned (though there is a first for everything)

Nanood · Mar 29, 2008, 09:21 AM // 09:21

<3 my G15 but i'm always participating whether a macro is running or not. I haven't invented one that plays the game for me and I can't say that I'd be inclined to use one anyway. I play the game cause I love the game....

Omnidragon42 · Mar 29, 2008, 11:29 AM // 11:29

I think the basic consensus is that "assist scripts" which take care of small actions (/resign, or even an autotyper for selling things) are fine, while "bot scripts" which fully automate the game (or certain aspects of it) are not.

What do you guys think of a script that changes weapon sets for you? (ex. Aegis auto-swaps to a 20% Enchantments, 20% recharge set, some spells cast on a 40/40 set and some spells on a different set, with you only pressing the skill button)

flyinhigh · Mar 29, 2008, 01:33 PM // 13:33

I think your still playing the game, and that you are still there, you can do that exact thing without a macro, all you have to do is hit one of the F1/F2/F3/F4 keys slightly before you hit the skill button. key bind just makes it easier.

fog_of_redoubt · Mar 29, 2008, 04:14 PM // 16:14

It sure would be helpful to actually have a G15 thread that was astually about the G15.

Seems that there are a few of us here. I for one have not done much with mine other that auto pick up of loot and /resign (hint: dont put it next to the auto pickup macro). I would love to see a collection of other macros, and also some LCD apps.

bigtime102 · Mar 29, 2008, 07:41 PM // 19:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Esan

PM me if you want specifics, but the gist is that it is trivial to tell when an event such as a mouse click or key press is synthetic and when it comes from actual user action.
Who said anything about sending information about the system to Anet. The client simply has to detect that it is getting synthetic events and tell that to the server. Thus, the only info the server receives is what has directly been input into the client, either by a human or by a script generating events. AutoIt and AutoHotkey, being basically the same code base, have a characteristic signature.

Also, I don't know which reality you live in, but in my reality not only can online game clients phone home with information about the client system, but it is commonplace. How do you think companies like Anet, Blizzard, Sony etc. detect bots in the first place?

The same way Bush finds terrorists, he taps your phone calls... seriousley, make no bones about it, the only way Anet can really stop bots is by invading our privacy. Since this isnt a matter of international security, and I paid to play this game, I dont agree with those terms. Stay out of my computer Anet, find bots another way or we'll see each other in court one day. You guy have lots of money right?

Esan · Mar 30, 2008, 02:07 AM // 02:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigtime102

The same way Bush finds terrorists, he taps your phone calls...

You either didn't understand what I said, or you're claiming an idiotic equivalence. How is a client reporting on what input it receives the same as the client snooping around in the system?

Firebaall · Mar 30, 2008, 04:03 AM // 04:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jade

Again, please read the post before responding. I never once said I deserved a title without being actively involved in the game. Nor did I say that it was fair that one could do so. Others here are just trying to figure out what we can and can't do with the g15 keyboard macros and I don't see you calling down thier brain cell count.

You might want to take your own advice there, as you seem to be missing the whole point beyond your narrow mindset. Either you don't understand the context of the conversation/disscusion here, or you're ignoring it. I'm not sure which one would be worse.

Backtrack... you ask in one stance how it would harm anybody else in the game if you just macroed yourself a title (drunk), then in the next heart beat you ignore my direct line of questioning to explain how you think it could be fair. Instead of actually answering or contributing, you cry about being "insulted".

If you quote or address me directly, bring some sort of cohesion to your thought process.

thasadar606 · Apr 02, 2008, 07:12 PM // 19:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigtime102

The same way Bush finds terrorists, he taps your phone calls...

it's sick.....INVADING PRIVACY: THIS IS IT!

ANET is not going to look trough your porn mate....THEY MADE THE GAME....it's build SO THAT IT LETS LOGS:

example

03-29-2008 03:21 AM You drank 745687356817356 Ale in 1 minute
03-29-2008 03:25 AM You beat Abaddon 6 times in HM in 3 minutes
03-29-2008 03:27 AM And ran through the underworld without dieing (so your survivor title is intact)

SAY STOP WHEN YOU GET THE POINT!
sorry but my bitterness is not aimed at you folks...the decent guys